Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

Praise be to Allah.

We are now with our special guest today, with our brother James?

Brother James:

James yes.

85 years of age, and I just hope I’m strong enough to go through this interview. My throat is giving me trouble!

Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

A brother just told me that the gift of Hajj is this special voice we get afterwards!

Brother James:

I believe so. I’m not alone. In fact most of our companions here are in the same condition.

Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

So we are here, tell us where we are, where we are located?

Brother James:

Well, we are located in Jeddah, in rather a nice hotel here not very far from Makkah.

Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

So why would we, you and I be here in a place usually associated with Arabs and that type of thing?

Brother James:

Well, we are here because as a new comer to the Muslim faith, I’m bound to come here, if Allah wills, during my life time at least once. And I have been most fortunate with people who have helped me come to the position I’m in today- and you are one of them brother Yusuf- to have this marvelous experience to come on to this Hajj.

It has not been easy for me, because I’m not as young as I used to be, and I’m not really- to be quite honest- used to be among a lot of crowds of people. But it has been worth it and I struggled on and I think I’ve completed everything as it should have been done, in-sha'-Allah.

Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

I have been with you for quite a long time and I’m sure you have done that and more in-sha’-Allah. And now I would like to ask you a question. Through your life, you are 85 years old masha’Allah and many people never attain that age but in your experience could you give us a little background, some of the places that you have been, things you have done?

Brother James:

Well, I was born in Scotland a long time ago, from a middle-class family. My father was a doctor, but he was overseas and I didn’t really see much of him. So I grew up with Scottish Presbyterian Christian relatives, and they gave me the background of believing in God and worshiping Him. Then complications came on that scheme later on when I went to a Roman Catholic school, and I was confused and never really adjusted too well to what was then a new religion to me.

And then after five years in the air force during World War II (1939-1945), I managed to attain a job with a large company in the Red Sea based in Aden, and I spent a year in London learning business, and I then went up there. And that was the first time I came into contact with people of the Muslim faith.

Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

So you are not a new-comer to meeting Muslims?

Brother James:

No, I’ve worked with them. We worked with all kind of people from different faiths. But I learned something about the Quran then, and Islam at that time which would be about 1949-1952. And then after that I came back to Britain after a short time because my contract wasn’t renewed there. I liked to stay there but in many ways Arabs were looking on me kindly because a lot of my friends didn’t survive, these were the break-ups in British colonial days, that had a troubled background. Then I went to Hong Kong for a short time working in a business company there.

Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

Well, were there any Muslims in Hong Kong?

Brother James:

No, I never met any Muslims there. I was completely divorced from any sort of religion really by that time. But then I went to Africa, to the Central African Federation, Rhodesia, now called Zimbabwe. And I got a simple job with the Health Department: Killing mosquitoes.

Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

You are a mosquito killer?!!

Brother James:

I was a mosquito killer, and I was dealing with a problem with a disease which can be caught from going into the river. So, I worked for them for a while, and then the Federation broke up. It’s a long story and we don’t have time for that, and I transferred across to the veterinarian department and worked in Tsetse fly control very successfully.

And then the war years came on, I wasn’t involved in any religious experience at that time. And eventually I got back to Britain but then went back to Africa again. But in the circumstances in Zimbabwe today, I came back to London about five years ago.

Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

I see. So now you are not a fly-fighter any more, I mean in an individual basis?!!

Brother James:

That’s very true, but then I thought to myself “You are getting out of age now. You always believed in God but you haven’t been praying to Him or worshipping Him for years, so it’s about time to do something about it.”

Nobody forced me, but I always had a feeling that Jesus is only a Prophet, one of Allah’s Prophets, and I thought that the Muslim religion was the only one for us.

Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

So you already had this embedded in your background?

Brother James:

It must have been something that popped up after seeing the rather, what I consider to be appalling way the country got downhill so much from a security and greed gluttony, and all the evils the Holy Quran tells us we should avoid and fight. So I decided to become a Muslim.

Nobody twisted my arm, nobody forced me but it was just to Allah’s intervention that completely, almost not accidently, but I was making money transfer to some poor Africans in South Africa who were suffering, I’m not a rich person but through a money exchange shop in an internet café which was run by a Somali chap. My brother was a doctor in Somalia one time, so they were not completely strangers to me.

So I realized that this fellow was quite a religious Muslim. And he introduced me to the Al-Muntada Islamic center. And I went down to see them one day, and I was accepted. I made the shahadah on the 10th. of June, 2008, and it has been the best thing I've done.

Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

In your whole life, you are talking about through your whole life, does this stand as the best thing?

Brother James:

I think it must be. Yes it is, certainly the most rewarding.

And to be here speaking to you today in this place it is almost miraculous.

Sheikh Yusuf Estes:

It is for me as well, I have to tell you this. Ordinarily, when we have guests I don’t like to interrupt them, but I have to tell you something the minute I met you I was so happy to make acquaintance with you, and my prayers that Allah would let us be together in this Hajj.

I’m so thankful to Allah for us to get to be here for this experience that we shared together, people we met together, things that happened some were kind of comical, and some were little tough!!

Brother James:

Yes it hasn’t to be all that straightforward. It never is. But as you said to me in one occasion when you saw me falling down, “It’s not supposed to be easy,” and I sort of raised my shoulders again and regained that Scottish toughness, you know, and survived.

I was very thankful to you, and to all your brothers that have been in the team here who looked after me so well. Without the strong arms and shoulders from Columbia and South Carolina I don’t think I would have made it on the last day which was very crowded, but I managed to get out very close to the Kaaba and I didn’t believe I was there.

You know, I’ve seen pictures of the Kaaba in the old days in Aden, and it seemed to be a small building, but when I arrived here it was different. It was an experience I didn’t expect, but everything went very well.

It’s not easy for an 85-year-old person, I don’t have to go into the details of that, but it’s not easy, but thanks to you and your team I managed to survive...

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